Ring sizes fr Maille?!

Joanne1981 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: Ring sizes fr Maille?!

Hi all,

I am on holiday at the moment (from work) and can't sleep....am thinking about Maille (and had too much of a relaxed start to the hols!!) Very Happy

Anyway, I was flicking through my Taylor and Whyte book tonight looking at all the different projects in there to have a crack at over the next six weeks. I find this book a bit scary! Why...because of the ring sizes etc.

So...some really dumb questions I need to ask...

For example...if a project calls for 4.25mm 19 gauge rings and 10.23mm 20 gauge rings (I'm making this up!) and I bought and used 'Off the peg...hobby craft type' rings which were 4mm and 10mm and did not know the gauge....what would happen?!!! Would it work?!

I am put off from having a go at these projects as I don't want to start and find that I have got all of my rings totally wrong. But...how and where would you get your hands on such precise rings and in such differnet gauges?!!

Also...where do you tend to stock up on your rings?

I have had a go at shaggy loops, byzantine, helm and am going to have a go a Rhino's tomorrow and I am really enjoying learning all the new and different weaves but really want to progress onto some of the ones in the book. Help...

purplerhian · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:13 am Post subject:

If the gauge isn't right it will make a difference. If the gauge is too small, it can make a chain loose and gappy and with some, such as Jens Pind they wont even hold their form correctly. Too large and they could be impossible to weave. You might be better off trying copper rather than craft wire as you are more likely to be able to find different gauges. As for all the different sizes, I tend to make what I need when I need it, so I am not sure about UK suppliers either. I have used urbanmaille.com though and they were brilliant, I'd definitely recommend them. Also this might help you with ring sizes as they are more standard

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I have used it as a reference and got on well with it.

Hope that helps!

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Lucinda x

Crafty Cat · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:20 am Post subject:

Check Lynnes site she has recommended sizes for different weaves on it

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Also using different metals can alter the sizes needed as there is different 'spring back' However there are deffo people on here with much better knowledge than me I just speak from my very amateur experice of maille Cool

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Claire x
Mad for Cats or am I just mad!

Joanne1981 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:29 am Post subject:

Thanks, so its advisable not to use 'Off the peg' ones? Those two sites are really useful but again for some of the ones in the book I mentioned there were some really strange measurments e.g. 19 gauge 4.25mm - Where the hecky thump would you get something that precise?! Does it need to be that precise or can you be slightly more relaxed?! I'm not saying just any old ring but how do you do these projects if you need to be dead on? Sorry if I sound dumb but I can't get my head around it.

Joanne1981 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:32 am Post subject:

Bump!

DragonflyLynne · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:38 am Post subject:

If you have an odd size I can convert it for you. Daisy

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Dragonfly (Lynne)

Joanne1981 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:41 am Post subject:

Thank you so much Lynne, how do you go about converting it?! Let me have a look in my book and I will get back to you. Thanks. Your conversion chart for the general weaves is fab too. Ta. Jo x

Joanne1981 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:44 am Post subject:

Hi,

How would you get:

19 gauge 3.97mm id

21 gauge 2.38mm id

18 gauge 5mm id

18 gauge 3.5mm id

I feel so thick but I really feel I am missing something with the conversion thing and use of different sized rings and how everyone else does it! Crying

Darkcelticlion · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:18 am Post subject:

Hey

The odd id's are usually caused by springback, ie the when you've wound yr wire n cut it off the coil the wire on the mandrel unwinds or springs back a little. This will change wire wound on a 3mm mandrel to somewhere between 3.1-3.4 or similar. I've got bright aluminium all wound on a 3mm mandrel with varying id's between 3mm-3.4mm, can make it a pain when weaving an AR sensertive weave.

Most weaves have a small amount of play with the AR, euro4-1, byzantine, roundmail, IVR, CIR to name a few. As mentioned above copper is probly yr best bet as many craft stores sell a much larger range of gauges than for other wires.
Hope that helps Very Happy

Lion

Darkcelticlion · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:22 am Post subject:

Oops, forgot.
I'm trying to make rings myself so dont usually buy from anyone, but i do still use

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. Shipping is ok to the UK but i'm hit with brokerage and VAT by customs, but it usually works out slightly lower than buying over here for specialist bits.

I'll have a root around and dig out a couple of links to UK sites that stock a small range of pre-cut rings.

Lion

Joanne1981 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:28 am Post subject:

Thank you so much this makes it a lot clearer for me! So, if I use pre formed ones then a little lee way is ok?!!

Crafty Cat · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:

Joanne1981 wrote:

I feel so thick but I really feel I am missing something with the conversion thing and use of different sized rings and how everyone else does it! Crying

Your not thick at all Joanne, I find it hard to understand too chick, I just ask the font of all maille knowledge Lynne Wink

She is extremly helpful Very Happy

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Claire x
Mad for Cats or am I just mad!

mizgeorge · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject:

Joanne1981 wrote:

Hi,

How would you get:

19 gauge 3.97mm id

21 gauge 2.38mm id

18 gauge 5mm id

18 gauge 3.5mm id

I feel so thick but I really feel I am missing something with the conversion thing and use of different sized rings and how everyone else does it! Crying

Hi Joanne. One of hte problems you're up against is that a lot of weaves have been originally designed in the US, using imperial mandrel sizes - the conversions don't always make total sense.

From the list above, the last two are easy - they're just 1mm wire in 5 and 3.5mm id - you can buy these from pretty much any ring supplier - the obvious ones to try are

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The first two aren't quite so simple, but guessing at the project you're looking at, and calculating the aspect ratios, you could happily substitute the following:

large rings 1mm wire 4.5mm id
small rings 0.8mm wire 2.75mm id

This will come out very slightly larger than the original, but are easy to find sizes in standard wire gauges.

hope that's some help.

george Daisy

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Joanne1981 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject:

Thanks both of you! I so want to go to one of Lynne's workshops now! Hehe!

George - You are fab! Thanks. How do you convert the rings?! Yes the book is american - its the taylor and whyte one. But thats fab...thank you so much!

J xx Very Happy

mizgeorge · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject:

You're welcome!

As for the conversions, it's all about the dreaded Aspect Ratio.

Once you establish this (divide the id of a ring by it's wire gauge), you can apply that figure to any other wire gauge and get a ring of the same ratio.

With two ring sizes in different gauges, you have to allow for a tiny bit of adjustment to make sure they'll still fit, and if the sizes get bit, you sometimes need to go up or down an extra gauge to get it to work. I thoroughly recommend trying new weaves in copper (which works in a very similar way to silver) to make sure it fits before starting on the silver, especially with the price of silver where it is now!

Have fun!

george Daisy

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